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Is there any point in using reason?

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Adamantium
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01 Jul 2015, 9:19 am

I see people developing theories that vapor trails behind aircraft "must be" part of some massive global conspiracy to spread chemicals. Believers in this rubbish call contrails "chemtrails" and speculate rampantly over the possible goals of the nefarious cabal they imagine to be responsible.

On the one hand, I think "these people are really stupid and there is no point in trying to reason with them. They either lack the capacity or the desire to develop knowledge."

On the other hand, I think "maybe they are just ignorant. They don't understand anything about water vapor, atmospheric layers, pressures and densities, etc. If they were informed and thought about, they might not find these wild conspiracy stories quite so plausible.

But then I see that they work very hard to reject information so they can hold on to their false beliefs and it just seems completely hopeless.

Is there any point in using reason with dumb, ignorant and paranoid?



Marky9
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01 Jul 2015, 12:34 pm

When I encounter such situations I try to just steer the conversation in another direction. I selfishly consider it a waste of my time and energy to even engage with someone on topics like that.



Adamantium
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01 Jul 2015, 3:28 pm

Thanks, Marky9.

I'll count that as one vote for "No, it isn't worth reasoning with such people." I should have made this a poll.



izzeme
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02 Jul 2015, 7:38 am

If it "has to be" a chemtrail, there is no point reasoning with that person: they have already decided to accept this fact and this fact alone.

If they talk about "It's probarbly" or "i heard it is", then they have some doubt or the willingness to change their minds, so discussions could be worth the effort.



Adamantium
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02 Jul 2015, 9:12 am

izzeme wrote:
If it "has to be" a chemtrail, there is no point reasoning with that person: they have already decided to accept this fact and this fact alone.

If they talk about "It's probarbly" or "i heard it is", then they have some doubt or the willingness to change their minds, so discussions could be worth the effort.


So that's one vote for it being possibly worth engaging such a person, contingent on there being some indication that they are already thinking a little. Thanks.



Fogman
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02 Jul 2015, 12:04 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I see people developing theories that vapor trails behind aircraft "must be" part of some massive global conspiracy to spread chemicals. Believers in this rubbish call contrails "chemtrails" and speculate rampantly over the possible goals of the nefarious cabal they imagine to be responsible.

On the one hand, I think "these people are really stupid and there is no point in trying to reason with them. They either lack the capacity or the desire to develop knowledge."

On the other hand, I think "maybe they are just ignorant. They don't understand anything about water vapor, atmospheric layers, pressures and densities, etc. If they were informed and thought about, they might not find these wild conspiracy stories quite so plausible.

But then I see that they work very hard to reject information so they can hold on to their false beliefs and it just seems completely hopeless.

Is there any point in using reason with dumb, ignorant and paranoid?


No, don't even bother to waste your time with them, they do not want their delusion ruined by empirical data. --The same goes for religious nutjobs that believe that the universe, galaxies, planetary systems, earth, life and humanity was created by some great and terrible deity in the space of a single week.


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btbnnyr
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02 Jul 2015, 12:30 pm

There's no hope in reasoning with these people.
Don't waste time and energy on them.


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Lukecash12
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02 Jul 2015, 12:38 pm

"Don't cast your pearls before swine, lest they rend them, and then turn and trample you."


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02 Jul 2015, 12:40 pm

Fogman wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
I see people developing theories that vapor trails behind aircraft "must be" part of some massive global conspiracy to spread chemicals. Believers in this rubbish call contrails "chemtrails" and speculate rampantly over the possible goals of the nefarious cabal they imagine to be responsible.

On the one hand, I think "these people are really stupid and there is no point in trying to reason with them. They either lack the capacity or the desire to develop knowledge."

On the other hand, I think "maybe they are just ignorant. They don't understand anything about water vapor, atmospheric layers, pressures and densities, etc. If they were informed and thought about, they might not find these wild conspiracy stories quite so plausible.

But then I see that they work very hard to reject information so they can hold on to their false beliefs and it just seems completely hopeless.

Is there any point in using reason with dumb, ignorant and paranoid?


No, don't even bother to waste your time with them, they do not want their delusion ruined by empirical data. --The same goes for religious nutjobs that believe that the universe, galaxies, planetary systems, earth, life and humanity was created by some great and terrible deity in the space of a single week.

btbnnyr wrote:
There's no hope in reasoning with these people.
Don't waste time and energy on them.


Lukecash12 wrote:
"Don't cast your pearls before swine, lest they rend them, and then turn and trample you."


Agreed. As they say, and this is something I’ve had to learn the hard way, you can’t reason people out of beliefs they didn’t reason themselves into to begin with.



Adamantium
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03 Jul 2015, 9:08 am

Four more No votes.

The consensus is clearly that it's a waste of time.

Thanks!

"You can’t reason people out of beliefs they didn’t reason themselves into to begin with" is nicely put.



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04 Jul 2015, 11:29 am

Reason is good to choose what you do to pursue your goals. Forget about using it to convince anyone who's already made up their mind.


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04 Jul 2015, 9:42 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I see people developing theories that vapor trails behind aircraft "must be" part of some massive global conspiracy to spread chemicals. Believers in this rubbish call contrails "chemtrails" and speculate rampantly over the possible goals of the nefarious cabal they imagine to be responsible.

On the one hand, I think "these people are really stupid and there is no point in trying to reason with them. They either lack the capacity or the desire to develop knowledge."

On the other hand, I think "maybe they are just ignorant. They don't understand anything about water vapor, atmospheric layers, pressures and densities, etc. If they were informed and thought about, they might not find these wild conspiracy stories quite so plausible.

But then I see that they work very hard to reject information so they can hold on to their false beliefs and it just seems completely hopeless.

Is there any point in using reason with dumb, ignorant and paranoid?


ppl that believe in chemtrails are fvcked in the head...don't cast your pearls of wisdom before the swine
I've tried to reason with them and they think you are a disinfo. AGENT if you try to teach them basic Science :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
f**k 'em :!:



traven
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05 Jul 2015, 2:26 am

people consume, also theories or beliefs, to belong
this particular one illustrates again; a legitimid concern for (deliberate or accidentaly) weathermodification should be debated by informed parties, what happens, it's thrown into beliefs and emotions
that's what's conspiraciestheories is about; emotionalizing, superstitions and religion(binding together)

don't be mistaken, you can avoid taxes by misinforming any way you want !