Why don't you just? Complex Way or the "Simple Fix"

Page 1 of 2 [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

voleregard
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 226
Location: A magical place without backup warning beepers or leaf blowers

31 Jul 2014, 6:09 pm

It seems like most people want me to resolve situations with the simple fix. Others can quickly find simple solutions that work for them. I don't find this to be true for me.

But I'm expected to find the fastest, most efficient way to resolve something, and what looks like a good approach to me is often met with anger by others because I'm adding steps and not doing it the fastest way.

And I see their solution as not thoroughly addressing all the parts of the problem. It's like the plumber that comes to your house to fix the bath drain, does so in five minutes and thinks that's the extent of it, but in the process he created a mess of footprints and drywall dust that's going to take you 30 to clean up.

They see the 5 minute solution, and not the 30 it takes for me to take care of all the fallout of their simple fix.

And often, if I do something the quickest way I think to do it, I'll leave out a glaring, critical step that I overlooked, which has led me to a problem-solving process that must look over-thought and over-complicated to others, but I have to in order to make sure I don't overlook things that I guess are obvious to others.

And this all has me thinking that there is a component of Asperger's which impairs the ability to find efficient, timely solutions to problems that take into account obvious problem issues. I see other people just make these kind of snap judgments about what to do: "oh, just do this?" And they kind of sneer at you like they're thinking, "you idiot, anyone can see this is the fastest, quickest way to fix this." Or if you do it their way, and run into a major problem issue that they didn't mention, they'll say, "everybody knows you can't do this without?" and mention something obvious that supposedly the whole world knows you have to do first before doing the other thing they wanted you to quickly do.

So I'm asking two questions here: One is whether the solutions you find to problems are viewed by others as complicated or convoluted; and two, when you tell others about the difficulty you're having coming up with a solution for something you have to do that seems to have perplexing complexity, are others really quick with the "you should just?" type of response and the condescending voice as their way of telling you that you're an idiot for not being able to see the simple answer like they can?

I get this all the time at car shops. I asked about fixing a crushed in fender, and I'm thinking about all the wiring inside and the carpet in the trunk and all the pieces that I could affect like the tail lights, the gas tank, and the guy says, "oh you can just pound all that out." Well, it didn't just "pound out." Anyway, what's been your experience: Does your brain provide you with quick fixes, and do others see your solutions as unnecessarily complicated?

(edited subject line: it let me type it, then truncated. hmmm.)


_________________
"This is first-class reality. The human affair is half real, part myth, part art-work..." -Robinson Jeffers

"I'm not shy? I just can't think of anything to say."


Last edited by voleregard on 31 Jul 2014, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

31 Jul 2014, 6:39 pm

I experience problems both ways. But, either way, my way of seeing the problem and solving it often baffles others.

Sometimes, I can summarize a big idea or problem & solution in one sentence and people then try to retell me about the complications. In these situations, it is because I saw a pattern and was able to use that pattern to summarize and quickly solve the problem.

Other times, I get bogged down in all the little details. Usually, when I get bogged down in these, it is because I am concerned that one little detail will mess up the whole thing. When someone tells me the answer is simple, I don't believe it because I need to know *why* each and every single detail I thought about does not make a difference. If someone is willing to explain how the details do or do not matter, I feel more settled about their solutions. It would take me more time on my own to sort through all the details.

I also do a *lot* of thinking. So, when situations/problems come up, I might have already been thinking about it and am closer to a decision/solution.



nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

31 Jul 2014, 6:40 pm

I experience problems both ways. But, either way, my way of seeing the problem and solving it often baffles others.

Sometimes, I can summarize a big idea or problem & solution in one sentence and people then try to retell me about the complications. In these situations, it is because I saw a pattern and was able to use that pattern to summarize and quickly solve the problem.

Other times, I get bogged down in all the little details. Usually, when I get bogged down in these, it is because I am concerned that one little detail will mess up the whole thing. When someone tells me the answer is simple, I don't believe it because I need to know *why* each and every single detail I thought about does not make a difference. If someone is willing to explain how the details do or do not matter, I feel more settled about their solutions. It would take me more time on my own to sort through all the details.

I also do a *lot* of thinking. So, when situations/problems come up, I might have already been thinking about it and am closer to a decision/solution.



voleregard
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 226
Location: A magical place without backup warning beepers or leaf blowers

31 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm

Yeah, the ability to have some streamlined solutions appear is kind of a mild compensation for the ordeal of having to muddle through the terribly complex others. The "gracefully efficient" ones where it all makes sense and so many other people don't seem to get it.

And when I can see something clearly, I sometimes don't explain it well because I don't see the need to explain the obvious, only to find it isn't obvious to the others.

I can relate to needing to know "why" certain details that seem important to me don't make a difference in the end. Or I'll do something the way they say you're not supposed to do it, because even though I didn't mean to do it the wrong way, it's like a subconscious way of proving to myself that it really can't be done that way, and I can be settled about the final outcome without wondering, "what about if I did it this way?" Oh, I've dodged some bullets on this one.



L_Holmes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,468
Location: Twin Falls, ID

31 Jul 2014, 8:23 pm

I can totally relate to this. I always feel like I spent much time and put in a lot of effort coming to the conclusion that I came to, or at least the idea that came to mind, only to have others immediately dismiss it and say things like, "Oh, you're wrong, your problem is..." whatever. And they don't even listen to my reasoning first, or on the rare occasions they do, they say things like "Ok, I see where you're coming from, BUT..." fill in the blank with the generic solution that always helps everyone else. And then, "But who knows, maybe you are right." And the way they just dismiss what you say is somehow made ok by that little comment at the end.

Most of the time the types of things that cause this kind of conversation to happen is when I have a personal problem that they think needs to be addressed, or (rarely) that I'm asking for advice on. But it just as easily seems to happen with little things, and with anyone I talk to. I hear the same "solutions" over and over, like they didn't even hear how many times I said I really don't think this is a common problem with an easy solution, especially when I already tried the common fixes and it ended in total failure. "Just do this then, it will work eventually." Maybe for most people, but not for me.

I feel many people tend to do this with other things too, it seems to me that it boils down to assumptions and stereotypes. People seem to assume that if a certain person does this or that, it is for the same reason that another person does similar things. They don't consider that people are different, and that just with life in general, problems require their own solutions, which may or may not be similar to others.

It makes me think of many of the kids in high school I knew. On math tests they would just pick an equation that had all the same variables listed in the problem, and often would get it right just because it usually fit. But what happened when they got to a problem that looked the same, and was actually asking for something very different? They just put the same equation, get a number, and call it good without actually analyzing or even comprehending the problem itself. It is totally stupid.


_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."

- Sherlock Holmes


L_Holmes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,468
Location: Twin Falls, ID

31 Jul 2014, 8:23 pm

deleted


_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."

- Sherlock Holmes


Last edited by L_Holmes on 31 Jul 2014, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

L_Holmes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,468
Location: Twin Falls, ID

31 Jul 2014, 8:24 pm

deleted (I wasn't trying to spam, but somehow I sent 3 of the same post. Sorry about that. I don't think there's a way to actually delete a post is there?)


_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."

- Sherlock Holmes


Last edited by L_Holmes on 31 Jul 2014, 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dianthus
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,138

31 Jul 2014, 8:37 pm

voleregard wrote:
So I'm asking two questions here: One is whether the solutions you find to problems are viewed by others as complicated or convoluted; and two, when you tell others about the difficulty you're having coming up with a solution for something you have to do that seems to have perplexing complexity, are others really quick with the "you should just?" type of response and the condescending voice as their way of telling you that you're an idiot for not being able to see the simple answer like they can?


Yes to both, and it is infuriating. I get sick of having people talk down to me that way.

I like to work things out in my head before I actually start working on something. I notice that other people like to just jump in and start, and they get impatient with me if I don't do that. They start telling me how to do it. But I would rather stand back and assess the situation and think for a bit before I start doing anything.

And in my job (and past jobs) I've been criticized because I like to take my time and do things the right way. They just want me to hurry up and get it done.

Also I think sometimes people just like to SAY "oh you should just..." to make things sound really simple when what they actually have in mind is something more complicated. They just don't communicate clearly about what they are thinking. It's like they assume you are just going to know all that extra steps that are implied in "you should just..." But I take it more literally than they do and I only find out later that they had something more in mind. And then just like the above questions/examples they still talk down to me for it.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

01 Aug 2014, 12:26 am

voleregard wrote:
So I'm asking two questions here: One is whether the solutions you find to problems are viewed by others as complicated or convoluted; and two, when you tell others about the difficulty you're having coming up with a solution for something you have to do that seems to have perplexing complexity, are others really quick with the "you should just?" type of response and the condescending voice as their way of telling you that you're an idiot for not being able to see the simple answer like they can?


Yes, and X1000

The vast majority of "simple solutions" are riddled with incompetence and create additional undesirable consequences.

Don't feel bad because you actually think things through thoroughly so that it's an actual solution and not just creating more problems.



stuff393
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 6 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 15

01 Aug 2014, 1:33 am

I get the same thing as nerdygirl, I take a long time to think things over before I can come up with a solution. Most of the time it is lost in space time, infrequently I see solutions that other people do not.

About car shops, they may be trying to appear confident so you will agree to have your car fixed there, I don't really know.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,439
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

01 Aug 2014, 2:56 am

The fastest, quickest way is not always the most efficient....for a lot of things it just ends up creating a worse end result than if more time and care was taken. I mean one could paint a house real quick and be done fast but it wouldn't look very good and it would probably have to be re-done a lot sooner than if a good job that maybe takes a bit longer is done....but my dad being a painter has run into people trying to cut corners just to make it 'quicker' and he hates that because he's always liked doing a good job on his work, not just half assing it.

So if putting actually getting stuff done more efficiently rather then sacrificing efficiency for the quickest, fastest way first is a trait associated with autism I don't think that is one of the problematic traits....though with the executive functioning difficulties sometimes you end up slow and inefficient at least I do.


_________________
We won't go back.


yournamehere
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,673
Location: Roaming 150 square miles somewhere in north america

01 Aug 2014, 4:38 am

After someone says "can't you just" I think it is fun to look at someone and say " I am a can't you just mechanic. Hope you got AAA".



mr_bigmouth_502
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Age: 30
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 7,028
Location: Alberta, Canada

01 Aug 2014, 6:06 am

I can relate as well. I hate it when I have a problem, and someone suggests a "simple" solution for it, and the solution either doesn't address all the actual issues, or it requires something that you can't get, but needs to be worked around. Although I'll admit, I'm bad for suggesting "simple" solutions as well. It really has to do with perspective, and how people see different issues. When a person only has so much info on any particular issue, they're bound to jump to conclusions on how to fix it.

NTs tend to think more in terms of the big picture, and aspies tend to view things as a set of details. As a result, NTs are more likely to suggest solutions to problems that overlook these details.



voleregard
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 226
Location: A magical place without backup warning beepers or leaf blowers

01 Aug 2014, 10:49 am

This is helping to see all your perspectives on this, so thanks. You're sparking ideas?

Stuff393 - the guy that told me to just pound out my fender was actually a mechanic known for his honesty here and was really trying to help me. He was telling me how to fix my car for the lowest possible cost, and that was his solution for the bashed in fender.

In other situations, yes, I have seen "fixers" talk about how simple a problem is, then about 3 hours later you get the phone call along the lines of what yournamehere is referring to: "uhh, we thought we knew what it would take, but we ran into something else here, and it's going to be more involved than we first thought." To which I know think, yeah, because you didn't really think it through the first time.



voleregard
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 226
Location: A magical place without backup warning beepers or leaf blowers

01 Aug 2014, 10:52 am

and Seetleaf, I get what you're saying about the cut-corners approach. So I guess I'm dealing with two aspects of this: there's the times when the problem requires more attention than most are willing to give it and they take the half-assed approach; and the times where the best approach is a simple one, but I can't see it.

One example is when I was in military boot camp. It's a very intense environment where every second you spend on something is critical because there's so much to do that you don't want to waste any time at all.

We were told to hang all our uniforms in the closet facing to the right. So my brain assessed the situation and took what appeared to be the fastest, most complete and efficient approach: I took all the hangers out and started putting all the uniforms on hangers, and was then going to put them all back in the closet, instead of just "grab hanger-put uniform on hanger-hang on closet rack" for each thing. But when I took the first one to the clothes rack, I realized I had put them on the hangers the wrong way. They were all facing left.

Now, these are molded plastic hangers with wire hooks which I now know swivel around. Well, it would have been the efficient solution and the correct one at the time to realize that and just turn the hook around. But my brain doesn't go that direction. (It rarely does.) I thought the metal was somehow welded into place, but instead of checking, I took every piece of clothing off the hanger, flipped it around and rehung them so they'd be facing right.

If there had an audience of 100 people watching me, I'm guessing about 95 would be screaming at me, "JUST TURN THE HOOK AROUND, <insert expletive here>! !" This is what I face in so many situations when resolving problems with others. It makes me tend away from group work and just want to sift through it all on my own, so that if I take that "scenic route" I can enjoy it and not have others criticizing me.

So where it may be appropriate at times to thoroughly examine a problem, there are also times where the ability to see a suitable straight path to a solution is where I see the trait impair my functioning. And I'm not sure if this falls into an executive functioning category or if it is better understood as something related to it but separate. Ideas?



voleregard
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 226
Location: A magical place without backup warning beepers or leaf blowers

01 Aug 2014, 11:17 am

mr_bigmouth_502: the fact that aspies see the sets of details I think is a major part of the struggle for me. It may be appropriate in some situations like a scientific investigative situation where I could be sifting through a lot of complex processes and it is an asset to have someone whose mind can (and wants to) follow all the detailed threads. But it seems that in everyday life, where I'm just trying to fix basic problems, my mind goes on that "scenic route" of following all the possible threads of a problem, instead of just seeing the main point of it and addressing it to fix it.

My horrible experiences at gardening work is making more sense now, too. I was out there with the mindset of a botanist or a horticulturist, examining, detailing, testing, and all they wanted was the crops grown and picked. Simple and straightforward.

Another example was at a garage sale. I had a broken guitar and someone was asking about it even though I was just keeping it there for someone who had already bought it.

Some movers had crushed the body and forced the top wood away from the body. I told the guy (who was with his girlfriend) what instrument techs had told me, that it wasn't repairable, but that I was always considering that I could put wood glue on it and do a reasonable fix, even if not a complete repair. And I added that I just hadn't gotten around to it because <here comes the details that make other people angry> I needed to get wood clamps to hold it correctly while drying, since the edge here is so thin, it would be hard to hold the join? and the guy got practically livid with me.

He was in his early 20's and the scorn and derision on his face was what I meet with often in these situations. "You don't need to get wood clamps, just get a vise to hold it down while it dries and it'd be fine." It's that attitude that "it's not that big of a problem, don't get all fancy about it, dufus" - it's almost verbal assault. I felt I was being attacked by this guy at my garage sale because of how he was acting toward me.

Never really sure how to respond in those situations, because he could be right, it could be a simple fix, but he doesn't know and I don't know, and the girlfriend he's trying to impress by attacking me doesn't know until I actually try it whether it is that simple or not. So I don't understand why running alternate scenarios in my head about what I'd need to do is such an issue with other people. OK, so I'm making it complicated. But I don't even know this guy - why does that matter to him? What is it to them? I could say pixies are going to be fixing it next week with Atlantic ivy and buttercup lotion - what do they care?