Sarcasm vs. sincerity

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It's common to read in the literature that many Aspies have issues detecting or conveying sarcasm. (I realize this is a generalization, though it seems to frequently be true.) And I admit I've had many moments--mostly when I was younger--when I took something somebody said at face value when it turned out they were joking or even making fun of me. (Don't get me started on my first days on the Internet...I did not understand the concept of "trolling." I was many trolls' favorite victim for quite a while. ;_; )

However, I far more often find myself having a similar but different problem. Far more often than failing to detect sarcasm where it actually is, I detect sarcasm where it ISN'T. Somebody says something flattering or complimentary, and I find myself doubting it, and telling myself that's not what they REALLY mean, surely they're having a good laugh at me behind my back, and if I so much as offer a curt but polite "Thank you," they'll burst out into cruel laughter at what a naïve moron I am.

I've always written this off as a defense mechanism I developed in response to the times I really was gullible and people really were making fun of me, which has been many times. I've learned to distrust people. I developed SEVERE social anxiety partly as a result of all this, and people with social anxiety doubt EVERYTHING about EVERYBODY. I've had people who have just reached out to me in friendship, as well as people I've been friends with for years, suddenly turn on me and prove that the "friendship" isn't (or is no longer) real in the least, so I always doubt my perception of things. But now knowing what I've learned about Asperger's, I find myself wondering if that might be partly to blame as well.

Additionally, I'm always terrified that what I say will be misunderstood by the other party. I'm pretty good at conveying sarcasm, when I really intend to. I make it rather obvious. So conveying sarcasm has never been an issue for me at all, since I get naturally snarky when my mood gets sour. But when I'm complimenting people, or trying to be friendly, I'm just filled with dread that they'll take it the wrong way.

I just had someone unfriend me on Forge of Empires. I could tell it was nothing personal (well, I hope not ) as they just seem to be clearing out their city and quitting the game. I felt hurt but told myself it had nothing to do with me, so stop feeling hurt already. (Didn't help, but whatever.) I was going to refrain from commenting, but thought it might be the nice thing to do to at least send this user a farewell message, as they'd been friendly to me in our few communications when we added each other. Plus, even though I don't know their personality or circumstances, I do know how discouraging it can feel to depart and have nobody take any notice. (I "left" my last forum, on which I was very active and semi-popular, many months ago, and almost nobody noticed...still hurts. ) So I sent along a message that merely said something like:

"Sorry to see you go. Best of luck wherever you end up, and thank you for your kindness."

Even as I typed it, I was having second thoughts, and almost didn't send it...I did...I think the user even replied, but I'm too afraid to read it, as always. ;_;

But anyway. That was the entire message. The entire THOUGHT behind the message...?

"Oh God. She's going to think I'm only sending this as a sort of snotty passive-aggressive way of getting in a parting shot at being dumped from her friends list. A normal person would just not comment, period. She's going to think I'm not sorry at all. The frowny face won't seem regretful, it'll seem snide. 'Best of luck wherever you end up'? She's probably going to think I'm telling her to go to h**l. Who says something like 'wherever you end up'?? What sort of comment is that?? And 'Thank you for your kindness'? I just meant when she was nice to me when we friended each other, but I bet she's going to think I'm not thankful at all. She's going to think 'your kindness' is my underhanded way of saying 'the way you dumped me from your friends list without any comment whatsoever.' In fact she's probably wondering what I even mean by 'kindness' when we were barely even in touch with each other--is she going to think I'm some sort of moron who saw kindness where it wasn't? Cripes, does she even remember me at all?? She probably thinks I'm some sort of clingy weirdo now. Oh God, I shouldn't send this message. She's going to think I'm such a bag of snot. (And now that I can't even bring myself to read her reply, she's going to think I'm an even BIGGER bag of snot.)"

Etc. etc....these are the kinds of hoops my mind jumps through after EVERY social interaction I have, no matter HOW friendly! In fact, the more potential there is for it to be a positive friendly experience, the more mental torment I put myself through, convincing myself this other person is misunderstanding everything I say and surely they must hate me.

Again, part of this is due to negative past experience. Many, MANY times when I've tried to express my anxiety and fear and trepidation to other people, no matter how tactful or polite or clear I thought I was being, they took it the wrong way and got VERY angry and upset. I still don't understand all the times it's gone horribly wrong. I'm just about POSITIVE I said things as politely and non-judgementally as I possibly could--if anything, I was tearing myself down, not the other person--but they frequently take it the wrong way. From saying to my mother, "Everything went wrong for me last night," and having her go off on a rant about how I think bad things only happen to me and I never think about anyone else--to sadly bowing out of a budding penpal friendship by saying, "I rather envy how popular you are " (and lots of other, friendlier things) after the other person sent me an e-mail she'd carbon-copied to a dozen other people, and having her go off on a rant telling me how mentally unstable I am and how I "can't be the sun in everyone else's sky" etc. etc. (it was a very long, VERY hurtful e-mail)...you get the gist. When I try to express my feelings, people get p***ed.

I STILL haven't written to my old friend for such reasons. ;_;

But yet again I find myself wondering, could Asperger's be making me fear so much misunderstanding from others? And/or could I even be not nearly as good at conveying my feelings as I thought I was? (For the record, this post is no different from how I convey my emotions on any occasion...except nowadays I'm usually too afraid to even bother. It REALLY hurts to open up about how afraid you are, in an attempt to reassure the other person that your anxiety isn't their fault, and to be chewed apart in return. Rather proves that such fears are very well founded. )

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I don't even know what sort of response I'm seeking, anymore. But thoughts would be appreciated. Does anyone else find that they don't have many issues detecting or conveying sarcasm, but they do have many issues detecting or conveying sincerity? I guess that's what I'm getting at.

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Suddenly having site issues. :/ I have not proofed this post since I want it to post while the site is still up!

Now I'm getting a weird error message:

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I'm in the same boat.

I need lots and lots of reassurance from someone that they want to be my friend.

I think the anxiety is very much a response to having had things go badly in the past, so when we try and reach out & start a new friendship, it is very scary. Is the person for real, or not? Is the person going to REALLY accept me for who I am, or will I cross an invisible line somewhere and cause him/her to run off?

I don't get feedback from people, what they like or dislike about me. So it's hard to know what to keep doing or stop doing to be a better person.

I have the same issues with sarcasm vs. sincerity. I've had people ask me a question that was apparently sarcastic, and then burst out laughing when I answered truthfully. I've had people think I was being sarcastic and snotty when I've said things. I've been the object of many, many a cruel joke, some of which I took to be more cruel than they were meant to be (practical jokes, for one. Why is it funny and why ISN'T it mean to do something to a friend that makes them look stupid or ruins their lunch???). Now I'm the same as you; I wonder whether things are meant truthfully or sarcastically.
I've learned a few things that may or may not help you.
1. People are generally not nice to each other. They are cordial at best, and they don't expect me to be nice, either. Which makes me look OVERLY nice. If I say something nice to someone else, it usually gets taken as sarcasm or flirting. I've had more than a few women mistakenly ask me out because they thought I was flirting with them when I was only trying to be nice. So I often clarify my meaning. "Please don't think I'm flirting, but you look very nice today. That is a pretty blouse." This still doesn't always work.
2. If I'm not sure what someone meant, I ask. "Did you mean that literally?" "Were you being sarcastic or truthful?" Yes, it makes me look weird and gullible, but if someone did say something to be nice, they will say so. Then, of course, I have to tell my doubting brain that they were truthful when they said they were being truthful. Sometimes, you just have to have a little faith and let the rest go.
3. I've learned that there are a lot of times that don't require a reply. It's better if I say nothing. I had someone online say something while replying to a post of mine that might have been very nice or very cruel depending on what they meant. I didn't ask. I just chose to believe they were being nice because I would probably never talk to them again. If my further interaction with that person is not dependent on the meaning of what they said, I choose to believe it was the better meaning and leave it at that. Makes the world brighter.

Also, I tend not to use sarcasm at all. My close friends know this about me. I am NEVER being sarcastic with them. And they know to try not to use sarcasm with me. Everything with me is face-value. No hidden meanings, no subtle suggestions, no sarcasm, no double entendres. What I mean is only what I say.

I'm bad at detecting when someone is being sarcastic too. Like you, I can be capable of using sarcasm myself but when others use it on me I don't always "get it" mostly because when most things a person says to you are plain old straightforward exchanges of information, then they throw in sarcasm, it's not expected, and I'm bad at reacting on the spot to a change in something -- I think that's part of my slower processing of input.

When I think more about it, I actually really hate it as a form of humor, even when gentle and not mean. I think I hate it for the very reason that I'm not good at detecting it, and so, for me, it throws a conversation.

For example, yesterday friend was on the phone with me, and we discussed something that was relatively serious, with not much to joke about. Then he threw in a sarcastic joke about the situation, in a normal voice no different from usual, and I almost took what he was saying as another part of the same serious topic and I took it for real -- before catching myself and having to make that polite laugh like "Oh I get it, haha...."

But I hate those moments because it feels to me like a stupid waste of time. I seriously want to discuss something and then this is like a monkey wrench in the works. It's distracting and pointless and dumb, I feel. And I'm not good at getting it so there's a frustration element. I kind of have no love for sarcastic humor, it's an interruption and messes up my focus on what we were talking about.

Maybe you've become more alert to thinking everything is sarcasm as a defence mechanism to once having been not alert enough to it?

I think sarcasm is especially hard to detect on the internet, hence why smileys can sometimes help show the "tone" of a post's intentions.

I just made a post where I said to someone I'm really glad to hear that this or that, while in the rest of my post I had to defend a statement, so I can see how that might be interpreted as me being snarky, when I didn't mean it that way.

I think there's always a chance for people to misunderstand each other; it's one of those things I think even NTs can do to each other but it's worse on the spectrum.

You're a lot like me. We have experienced so much embarrassment, frustration, and negativity that the slightest glimmer of potential anger or spite makes us want to hide from the world. Despite the reality that people probably don't usually dislike us. An example is when I thought a friend didn't like me as much as before. So I said maybe we should quit talking. He told me that he really liked talking to me. That even if I took forever to respond he'd still want to hear from me.

People can be, and perhaps generally are, better and think better of us than our minds believe. But it's become such an ingrained defensive mechanism that it's hard to get past it. I think it's because we're terrified of our own negative self-image being reflected in what other people say or feel about us.

I wish I knew how to help you but all I can do is say how much I relate. We're suffering very much the same thing. Maybe that offers some comfort to not be alone in dealing with this struggle.

Sometimes I worry about not coming off sincere so I might go to far. I say too much and seemingly overwhelm them. Though, probably more common, I say nothing at all. I don't tell someone I like that they're cool in my eyes. Because I fear that somehow it'll end badly. I want to be closer to people. To have meaningful friendships. For us to find some small amount of grace in each other.

But my mind keeps warning me of how many ways it could crash and burn. Of the mistakes I might make, intentionally or not. How I might found out they think I'm a freak. It's not a healthy way to think. I know that. I try to fight it. And I think you should too. But I genuinely understand why it's hard for you. Everything is hard for me too. There's not much else we can do except keep trying to connect with kind hearted people.