Conservatism?
Why is it again, that Conservatives categorize themselves as "Conservative?" When especially the more prominent ones are anything but Conservative in their personal lives? Flamboyant in dress, frivolous and extravagant with their own finances, ostentatious, vulgar and aggressive in expression. Excessive in behaviour and appearance (note, I said "the more prominent"). They are only Conservative in federal finance because they want to get all the advantages of loopholes and tax breaks for themselves but do not want them for anyone else, not so much because they are concerned with national budgets. Sure, it can be said that they are not the only ones who live thus, ( as I am sure someone will point out), but they are the ones who claim to be Conservative. I don't know anything about the lifestyles or belongings of any WP Conservatives, but some of them are anything but restrained in expression of rhetoric. If it were permitted in WP I have no doubt PPR would be laced with expletives (I fully expect some of the more OCD prone amongst us to sift through my posts to find any profanity I may have used which will amount to no more than 2-3 incidents of me using character substitutes to create a pseudo-expletive, but even were it permitted, you would never see me using that terminology here). Noone in my family or any workplace can ever claim to have heard me use that language.
So, where and how, exactly, does the term Conservatism actually apply?
Titles are just words.
You have to understand political theory and do astute observation of what a group practices to know what they really are.
Modern Democrats are Socialists/Communists.
Modern Republicans are the old Democrats.
The word "conservative" is heavily abused to attract people who really are "conservative" into a camp that does not practice what it preaches.
Gun rights - "The right to bear massive amounts of field artillery shall not be abridged."
Desire for lower taxes ... for Big Business only.
Desire for less government ... especially in social programs, environmental protection (EPA), education, et cetera.
Freedom from government intrusion ... unless you happen to say or publish something uncomplimentary to the Conservative Cause.
Traditional values - Women shall be wives, teachers, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, and prostitutes only. Poor people shall be kept poor so as to provide a cheap labor force, and minority children shall have limited educational opportunities so as to keep them poor. The government shall be of, by, and for wealthy, white, land-owning, business-owning, church-going, Christian* MEN.
(* And by 'Christian', they do not mean Roman Catholic.)
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Robert Peel basically made Conservatives like classical Liberalism. He stole most of their ideas. Everything from small government, low taxation, to free trade.
The difference is Conservative still support protectionism when it suits.
The reality is modern Conservatism is a mixture of classical Liberalism and Social Conservationism.
There myth is there is single ideal, reality is Conservative parties have both. In many countries like Austria the Liberal part is the Conservative one (possibly Canada not sure).
In fact the modern definition of Liberal has nothing to do with Liberalism. The only reason for this is the cold war. People who otherwise would have called themselves Socialist, or Social Democrat, started calling themselves Liberals (or it may have been derogatory first).
I do know the Democratic party doesn't mean they were social liberal historically.
Jefferson was Democratic Republican, which is a defunct party.
You have to understand political theory and do astute observation of what a group practices to know what they really are.
Modern Democrats are Socialists/Communists.
lol
Federal income tax of (at most) 28% for someone earning £100,000 is not communism. If Obama were a communist, income tax would be increasing, not decreasing (albeit perhaps only in line with inflation).
You have to understand political theory and do astute observation of what a group practices to know what they really are.
Modern Democrats are Socialists/Communists.
lol
Federal income tax of (at most) 28% for someone earning £100,000 is not communism. If Obama were a communist, income tax would be increasing, not decreasing (albeit perhaps only in line with inflation).
Communism doesn't necessarily have tax, it based on having little property, and being a government employee, in government industry. Communism is a bit like feudalism, except there is only one feudal Lord and that is the Politburo.
Desire for lower taxes ... for Big Business only.
Desire for less government ... especially in social programs, environmental protection (EPA), education, et cetera.
Freedom from government intrusion ... unless you happen to say or publish something uncomplimentary to the Conservative Cause.
Traditional values - Women shall be wives, teachers, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, and prostitutes only. Poor people shall be kept poor so as to provide a cheap labor force, and minority children shall have limited educational opportunities so as to keep them poor. The government shall be of, by, and for wealthy, white, land-owning, business-owning, church-going, Christian* MEN.
(* And by 'Christian', they do not mean Roman Catholic.)
1.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
2. And where did they feed you that? Have you ever read the tax code? Read more than a bill or two a year? I'm sorry but that's just nonsense and this is coming from someone who has been working in taxes for decades, someone who worked for the IRS for three years.
3. This kind of hypocrisy isn't attractive on either side.
4. Sounds like another straw man being vomited out. Have you ever actually read the proposed agenda and policies of a conservative party? Seen their mission statement? Once again have you ever read a bill? The proceedings of congress are also publicly available on television.
5. Then why is O'Reilly Catholic? Or Hannity? There are also Mormons, Jews, and even some Hindus that are public supporters of the conservative viewpoint.
Answering the OP:
A conservative is someone who wishes to conserve older American values in politics. The term is largely relative and like others have said, a supposed conservative today looks a lot more like Franklin Roosevelt or even Clinton, than Calvin Coolidge, Truman, Nixon, or Reagan. As a libertarian I find the term amusing because from our perspective Republicans are very liberal fiscally, by no means laissez faire.
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So, where and how, exactly, does the term Conservatism actually apply?
The same question could be asked about people categorised as liberal when so many of them only support certain liberties.
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Desire for lower taxes ... for Big Business only.
Desire for less government ... especially in social programs, environmental protection (EPA), education, et cetera.
Freedom from government intrusion ... unless you happen to say or publish something uncomplimentary to the Conservative Cause.
Traditional values - Women shall be wives, teachers, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, and prostitutes only. Poor people shall be kept poor so as to provide a cheap labor force, and minority children shall have limited educational opportunities so as to keep them poor. The government shall be of, by, and for wealthy, white, land-owning, business-owning, church-going, Christian* MEN.
(* And by 'Christian', they do not mean Roman Catholic.)
1.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
2. And where did they feed you that? Have you ever read the tax code? Read more than a bill or two a year? I'm sorry but that's just nonsense and this is coming from someone who has been working in taxes for decades, someone who worked for the IRS for three years.
3. This kind of hypocrisy isn't attractive on either side.
4. Sounds like another straw man being vomited out. Have you ever actually read the proposed agenda and policies of a conservative party? Seen their mission statement? Once again have you ever read a bill? The proceedings of congress are also publicly available on television.
5. Then why is O'Reilly Catholic? Or Hannity? There are also Mormons, Jews, and even some Hindus that are public supporters of the conservative viewpoint.
Answering the OP:
A conservative is someone who wishes to conserve older American values in politics. The term is largely relative and like others have said, a supposed conservative today looks a lot more like Franklin Roosevelt or even Clinton, than Calvin Coolidge, Truman, Nixon, or Reagan. As a libertarian I find the term amusing because from our perspective Republicans are very liberal fiscally, by no means laissez faire.
While there are of course Catholic and Non-Christian conservatives, there is still a powerful evangelical segment in the ranks of the right, especially strong in the Bible Belt, who not only reject Catholics, Mormons, Jews, etc, but also mainline Protestants.
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The same question could be asked about people categorised as liberal when so many of them only support certain liberties.[/quote]
I always wondered if the word "Liberals" in that context was at first a derogatory that go adopted. Kind of like Fuave. It is chicken an egg question. Anyway it is is the incorrect definition of Liberal.
It is fair to say the cold war had the unfortunate effect of stupefying US politics, you also had your civil liberties/basic right eroded at times, which is ironic really. In thew UK we also took "anti-Subversive" measures too far.
In the UK the Liberal party merged with he social democrat party, this was becuase Labour was too extreme for the social democrats at the time (before Blair era shifted to centre).
I think reality is there is need to get beyond these label down to the specific, otherwise it is just a case of "___tard" slanging matches. It is dumbed down, unfortunately this kind of negative campaigning is being copied in the UK. It is a red herring.
Desire for lower taxes ... for Big Business only.
Desire for less government ... especially in social programs, environmental protection (EPA), education, et cetera.
Freedom from government intrusion ... unless you happen to say or publish something uncomplimentary to the Conservative Cause.
Traditional values - Women shall be wives, teachers, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, and prostitutes only. Poor people shall be kept poor so as to provide a cheap labor force, and minority children shall have limited educational opportunities so as to keep them poor. The government shall be of, by, and for wealthy, white, land-owning, business-owning, church-going, Christian* MEN.
(* And by 'Christian', they do not mean Roman Catholic.)
1.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
2. And where did they feed you that? Have you ever read the tax code? Read more than a bill or two a year? I'm sorry but that's just nonsense and this is coming from someone who has been working in taxes for decades, someone who worked for the IRS for three years.
3. This kind of hypocrisy isn't attractive on either side.
4. Sounds like another straw man being vomited out. Have you ever actually read the proposed agenda and policies of a conservative party? Seen their mission statement? Once again have you ever read a bill? The proceedings of congress are also publicly available on television.
5. Then why is O'Reilly Catholic? Or Hannity? There are also Mormons, Jews, and even some Hindus that are public supporters of the conservative viewpoint.
Answering the OP:
A conservative is someone who wishes to conserve older American values in politics. The term is largely relative and like others have said, a supposed conservative today looks a lot more like Franklin Roosevelt or even Clinton, than Calvin Coolidge, Truman, Nixon, or Reagan. As a libertarian I find the term amusing because from our perspective Republicans are very liberal fiscally, by no means laissez faire.
While there are of course Catholic and Non-Christian conservatives, there is still a powerful evangelical segment in the ranks of the right, especially strong in the Bible Belt, who not only reject Catholics, Mormons, Jews, etc, but also mainline Protestants.
You do realize that the bible belt is made up of states that are not as densely populated as coastal states, right? People in the US really need to expand their idea of "American Christianity" and religion amongst conservatives. Our views are not such an oxy-moron that you have to be some straw man of a religious kook to believe in them. Seriously, we will have made a lot of progress if we can get past "well your group is just dumb and they all look and think like this".
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funeralxempire
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That's utterly ridiculous, even many formerly socialist parties in the west have abandoned socialism and the Democratic party is well to the right of them. Claiming the Democratic party is socialist shows a complete ignorance regarding what socialism is.
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Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Desire for lower taxes ... for Big Business only.
Desire for less government ... especially in social programs, environmental protection (EPA), education, et cetera.
Freedom from government intrusion ... unless you happen to say or publish something uncomplimentary to the Conservative Cause.
Traditional values - Women shall be wives, teachers, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, and prostitutes only. Poor people shall be kept poor so as to provide a cheap labor force, and minority children shall have limited educational opportunities so as to keep them poor. The government shall be of, by, and for wealthy, white, land-owning, business-owning, church-going, Christian* MEN.
(* And by 'Christian', they do not mean Roman Catholic.)
1.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
2. And where did they feed you that? Have you ever read the tax code? Read more than a bill or two a year? I'm sorry but that's just nonsense and this is coming from someone who has been working in taxes for decades, someone who worked for the IRS for three years.
3. This kind of hypocrisy isn't attractive on either side.
4. Sounds like another straw man being vomited out. Have you ever actually read the proposed agenda and policies of a conservative party? Seen their mission statement? Once again have you ever read a bill? The proceedings of congress are also publicly available on television.
5. Then why is O'Reilly Catholic? Or Hannity? There are also Mormons, Jews, and even some Hindus that are public supporters of the conservative viewpoint.
Answering the OP:
A conservative is someone who wishes to conserve older American values in politics. The term is largely relative and like others have said, a supposed conservative today looks a lot more like Franklin Roosevelt or even Clinton, than Calvin Coolidge, Truman, Nixon, or Reagan. As a libertarian I find the term amusing because from our perspective Republicans are very liberal fiscally, by no means laissez faire.
While there are of course Catholic and Non-Christian conservatives, there is still a powerful evangelical segment in the ranks of the right, especially strong in the Bible Belt, who not only reject Catholics, Mormons, Jews, etc, but also mainline Protestants.
You do realize that the bible belt is made up of states that are not as densely populated as coastal states, right? People in the US really need to expand their idea of "American Christianity" and religion amongst conservatives. Our views are not such an oxy-moron that you have to be some straw man of a religious kook to believe in them. Seriously, we will have made a lot of progress if we can get past "well your group is just dumb and they all look and think like this".
Sure, there are evangelicals in coastal states; they practice the kind of religion that comes out of the Bible Belt, and tends to question the legitimacy of the kind of mainline church I belong to.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Desire for lower taxes ... for Big Business only.
Desire for less government ... especially in social programs, environmental protection (EPA), education, et cetera.
Freedom from government intrusion ... unless you happen to say or publish something uncomplimentary to the Conservative Cause.
Traditional values - Women shall be wives, teachers, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, and prostitutes only. Poor people shall be kept poor so as to provide a cheap labor force, and minority children shall have limited educational opportunities so as to keep them poor. The government shall be of, by, and for wealthy, white, land-owning, business-owning, church-going, Christian* MEN.
(* And by 'Christian', they do not mean Roman Catholic.)
1.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
2. And where did they feed you that? Have you ever read the tax code? Read more than a bill or two a year? I'm sorry but that's just nonsense and this is coming from someone who has been working in taxes for decades, someone who worked for the IRS for three years.
3. This kind of hypocrisy isn't attractive on either side.
4. Sounds like another straw man being vomited out. Have you ever actually read the proposed agenda and policies of a conservative party? Seen their mission statement? Once again have you ever read a bill? The proceedings of congress are also publicly available on television.
5. Then why is O'Reilly Catholic? Or Hannity? There are also Mormons, Jews, and even some Hindus that are public supporters of the conservative viewpoint.
Answering the OP:
A conservative is someone who wishes to conserve older American values in politics. The term is largely relative and like others have said, a supposed conservative today looks a lot more like Franklin Roosevelt or even Clinton, than Calvin Coolidge, Truman, Nixon, or Reagan. As a libertarian I find the term amusing because from our perspective Republicans are very liberal fiscally, by no means laissez faire.
While there are of course Catholic and Non-Christian conservatives, there is still a powerful evangelical segment in the ranks of the right, especially strong in the Bible Belt, who not only reject Catholics, Mormons, Jews, etc, but also mainline Protestants.
You do realize that the bible belt is made up of states that are not as densely populated as coastal states, right? People in the US really need to expand their idea of "American Christianity" and religion amongst conservatives. Our views are not such an oxy-moron that you have to be some straw man of a religious kook to believe in them. Seriously, we will have made a lot of progress if we can get past "well your group is just dumb and they all look and think like this".
Sure, there are evangelicals in coastal states; they practice the kind of religion that comes out of the Bible Belt, and tends to question the legitimacy of the kind of mainline church I belong to.
"There are evangelicals in coastal states" doesn't equal "American Christians are for the most part evangelical or fundamental". Plus I don't see what isn't mainline about baptists. But the moral of the story here really is that it is uncalled for when people like yourself make such generalizations about a group. I don't see why we as humans have to hammer the same point in on ourselves with every different subject, as if we're surprised to learn that there is variety and you can't chalk everything up to one or a few observations.
But I guess it's more comforting just to tell yourself every day "well look at these people, what morons, do they even realize how dumb they sound". Seriously, it gets pretty dull every time I'm in a discussion like this and it just devolves into identity politics again.
_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib