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TornadoEvil
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22 Jul 2014, 1:30 pm

I have recently taken up interest in this MMO. I started as free-to-play, and then subscribed when I realized the FTP restrictions were there just to really give you a taste of the game. I am on the Shadowlands Server if anyone wants to join up with me. I think its a really well designed game, with good storylines to keep you involved. It seriously helps me cope with my issues. Though I need to play the game less and work on finding a job. I think its expansive enough to hold my interest for a while. I remember doing end-game raiding in World of Warcraft around Wrath of the Lich King had great therapeutic value for me. Since they restrict how fast you can complete things in the end game, once I reach that point it should be a bit of a slow down for me. I really like taking the roll of tank in groups.

Does anyone here play The Old Republic?



Dantac
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22 Jul 2014, 3:14 pm

TornadoEvil wrote:
I have recently taken up interest in this MMO. I started as free-to-play, and then subscribed when I realized the FTP restrictions were there just to really give you a taste of the game. I am on the Shadowlands Server if anyone wants to join up with me. I think its a really well designed game, with good storylines to keep you involved. It seriously helps me cope with my issues. Though I need to play the game less and work on finding a job. I think its expansive enough to hold my interest for a while. I remember doing end-game raiding in World of Warcraft around Wrath of the Lich King had great therapeutic value for me. Since they restrict how fast you can complete things in the end game, once I reach that point it should be a bit of a slow down for me. I really like taking the roll of tank in groups.

Does anyone here play The Old Republic?


I used to but I quickly left it. I didn't like at all how cookie-cutter and bottlenecked the player classes are. Literally, the design is for very casual, very little challenge but lots of reflex clicking and lots of explosion animations but very little actual 'gaming' getting done.

Its what its called the 'horde slayer' design mentality. They just put your character to slay dozens and dozens of much weaker enemies nonstop as you run around maps back and forth doing quests (you either do quests for XP or you dont advance..the XP levels to level up are too much to 'grind' or advance in any other means).

Then you mix this with the fact that there's no need to play with others in a group... you can literally solo anything by design.

I'm a traditionalist when it comes to gameplay experience. If the game is to have tanks/healers/etc then they should be the only ones that can tank or heal or 'etc' to create interdependence and niche between classes. You can't have a tank class that can do damage and heal itself and solo whatever (it just takes longer).

I'd suggest you try FF11 Online for a real traditionalist experience.. or FF14 for a game which is like SWOTR at the start but in end game you do get the interdependence and uniqueness of character builds.



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22 Jul 2014, 8:00 pm

The game is..... ehhhh.

It's not bad, but it's so freaking generic.

It's not that there's anything wrong with the game mechanics, but the game just doesnt do ANYTHING to stand out aside from "has Star Wars stuff". I gave it a try, and simply got bored with it before too long.




Dantac wrote:
I used to but I quickly left it. I didn't like at all how cookie-cutter and bottlenecked the player classes are. Literally, the design is for very casual, very little challenge but lots of reflex clicking and lots of explosion animations but very little actual 'gaming' getting done.

Its what its called the 'horde slayer' design mentality. They just put your character to slay dozens and dozens of much weaker enemies nonstop as you run around maps back and forth doing quests (you either do quests for XP or you dont advance..the XP levels to level up are too much to 'grind' or advance in any other means).

Then you mix this with the fact that there's no need to play with others in a group... you can literally solo anything by design.

I'm a traditionalist when it comes to gameplay experience. If the game is to have tanks/healers/etc then they should be the only ones that can tank or heal or 'etc' to create interdependence and niche between classes. You can't have a tank class that can do damage and heal itself and solo whatever (it just takes longer).

I'd suggest you try FF11 Online for a real traditionalist experience.. or FF14 for a game which is like SWOTR at the start but in end game you do get the interdependence and uniqueness of character builds.



The reason soloing is allowed for most classes in most MMOs these days is because things tend to go all sorts of bad when it isnt.

FF11, for instance. Ye gods, Iv'e played SO many different MMOs, from the ancient days of the first Everquest's Kunark expansion or Anarchy Online, to the more recent ones like Rift and whatnot.... but I hate none so much as that one. Now granted, I hate Square Enix with an undying passion to begin with, but that's not the reason. Well, okay, there were ALOT of reasons, but.... the absolute obsession with forced-grouping was one of those reasons. In that game, if you just could not find a group.... guess what, you probably didnt get to play that night. And no, the 'just bring friends" bit doesnt work when nobody you know gives a crap about it. Some MMOs go a little too far with the "able to solo" idea, sure, but.... it works both ways. At some point developers started to realize that pidgeonholing characters into very, very specific niches ONLY just wasnt all that much fun, and also contributed to massive amounts of waiting (because a party has to have a very specific need for your very specific class to invite you, in a game that does too much of that), both of which are encouragement to not play anymore and to go find something else to do. So nowadays you see the more "freeform" character development. Though yes, some of those games go too far with THAT too.

As a rule though, more options are better than less options. If I want to fire up a game NOW, I should be able to play it NOW. Not sit on a crate somewhere because my cant-solo-worth-a-crap warrior guy cant find a group. That mentality has been acknowledged more and more by developers as time goes on. A game that does it RIGHT will make sure that technically everyone can solo.... but put in lots of shiny benefits so that grouping is very appealing. Hard to do though, that.


I forgot where I was going with this, not that that is a surprise.



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23 Jul 2014, 9:38 am

I play once in a while and I agree that it's okayyyy.....Not great, not bad, just very ordinary. It's fun for a little bit.


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23 Jul 2014, 10:17 pm

Misery wrote:
the absolute obsession with forced-grouping was one of those reasons. In that game, if you just could not find a group.... guess what, you probably didnt get to play that night. And no, the 'just bring friends" bit doesnt work when nobody you know gives a crap about it. Some MMOs go a little too far with the "able to solo" idea, sure, but.... it works both ways. At some point developers started to realize that pidgeonholing characters into very, very specific niches ONLY just wasnt all that much fun, and also contributed to massive amounts of waiting (because a party has to have a very specific need for your very specific class to invite you, in a game that does too much of that), both of which are encouragement to not play anymore and to go find something else to do. So nowadays you see the more "freeform" character development. Though yes, some of those games go too far with THAT too.

As a rule though, more options are better than less options. If I want to fire up a game NOW, I should be able to play it NOW. Not sit on a crate somewhere because my cant-solo-worth-a-crap warrior guy cant find a group. That mentality has been acknowledged more and more by developers as time goes on. A game that does it RIGHT will make sure that technically everyone can solo.... but put in lots of shiny benefits so that grouping is very appealing. Hard to do though, that.


I forgot where I was going with this, not that that is a surprise.


The difference between FF11 and SWOTR (to sortof stay on topic ;) ) is basically that while it is true that in FF11 you absolutely had to be part of a 'trinity' group (tank/dps/healer) at a minimum to defeat equal or higher level enemies (and the fights were challenging!)... you could still solo non-boss mobs that were a couple levels lower than you that were still a challenge (and did have a decent chance of taking you down) and level up with them. FF11 did not have horde killing mentality either... if more than 1 'just a couple levels lower than you' monster ganged on you, you could find yourself in very big trouble. Heck, even a small mob of monsters half your level would take you down darn quickly.

In contrast, SWOTR does not require you to group up for anything other than very high level or storyline bosses (and that hardly happens)... the stuff you kill by the dozens & all at once tend to be equal or higher level than you and even as you kill them your risk of death is negligible for the most part.

Equipment and skills wise... in FF11 you had to keep your gear updated or that alone would kill you and your party along with it. Leveling up wasn't quick but it was rewarding. SWOTR.... heck if I remember right I didn't die once until I reached level 50.... which I got to in like a month or so of casual play. It was absurdly easy and mind-numbing... once I got to max level and end game I realized things didn't change at all.

FF14 on the other hand, seems to have caved in to the WOW-clone crowd of gaming and became a horde killing, relatively quick leveling, equipment not as important type of game until you hit end game where it took some of FF11's gameplay manual and applied it... but its still rather silly to see people just not needing to play with others. Games like WoW and such are voyeurMMO's... you're playing with yourself in front of others to show off and get a thrill... but not WITH others.



structrix
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24 Jul 2014, 10:05 am

Dantac wrote:
Misery wrote:
the absolute obsession with forced-grouping was one of those reasons. In that game, if you just could not find a group.... guess what, you probably didnt get to play that night. And no, the 'just bring friends" bit doesnt work when nobody you know gives a crap about it. Some MMOs go a little too far with the "able to solo" idea, sure, but.... it works both ways. At some point developers started to realize that pidgeonholing characters into very, very specific niches ONLY just wasnt all that much fun, and also contributed to massive amounts of waiting (because a party has to have a very specific need for your very specific class to invite you, in a game that does too much of that), both of which are encouragement to not play anymore and to go find something else to do. So nowadays you see the more "freeform" character development. Though yes, some of those games go too far with THAT too.

As a rule though, more options are better than less options. If I want to fire up a game NOW, I should be able to play it NOW. Not sit on a crate somewhere because my cant-solo-worth-a-crap warrior guy cant find a group. That mentality has been acknowledged more and more by developers as time goes on. A game that does it RIGHT will make sure that technically everyone can solo.... but put in lots of shiny benefits so that grouping is very appealing. Hard to do though, that.


I forgot where I was going with this, not that that is a surprise.


The difference between FF11 and SWOTR (to sortof stay on topic ;) ) is basically that while it is true that in FF11 you absolutely had to be part of a 'trinity' group (tank/dps/healer) at a minimum to defeat equal or higher level enemies (and the fights were challenging!)... you could still solo non-boss mobs that were a couple levels lower than you that were still a challenge (and did have a decent chance of taking you down) and level up with them. FF11 did not have horde killing mentality either... if more than 1 'just a couple levels lower than you' monster ganged on you, you could find yourself in very big trouble. Heck, even a small mob of monsters half your level would take you down darn quickly.

In contrast, SWOTR does not require you to group up for anything other than very high level or storyline bosses (and that hardly happens)... the stuff you kill by the dozens & all at once tend to be equal or higher level than you and even as you kill them your risk of death is negligible for the most part.

Equipment and skills wise... in FF11 you had to keep your gear updated or that alone would kill you and your party along with it. Leveling up wasn't quick but it was rewarding. SWOTR.... heck if I remember right I didn't die once until I reached level 50.... which I got to in like a month or so of casual play. It was absurdly easy and mind-numbing... once I got to max level and end game I realized things didn't change at all.

FF14 on the other hand, seems to have caved in to the WOW-clone crowd of gaming and became a horde killing, relatively quick leveling, equipment not as important type of game until you hit end game where it took some of FF11's gameplay manual and applied it... but its still rather silly to see people just not needing to play with others. Games like WoW and such are voyeurMMO's... you're playing with yourself in front of others to show off and get a thrill... but not WITH others.


I have no problem with WOW and its clones. I like WOW and I like FFXIV and GW2 etc. I dont like playing with people. It gets really annoying when you group up with people and because you are still learning the game or dont play how they like they just drop you from a group like a hot potato instead of giving advice. I avoid grouping and I don't raid.


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Dantac
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24 Jul 2014, 7:29 pm

..then why do you play MMO's as opposed to single player games? Its an honest question not a prodding one. :)



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25 Jul 2014, 8:15 am

Dantac wrote:
..then why do you play MMO's as opposed to single player games? Its an honest question not a prodding one. :)


I play both types. I play all kinds of games! :D


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TornadoEvil
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28 Jul 2014, 5:58 pm

Yeah, you guys are partially right, normal and weak enemies are mostly just painful to grind through unless they do a significant amount of damage. A strong enemy takes much longer to take down, and does more damage. And elites, the tough guys you are supposed to be able to take one-on-one can be close fights. Several of the bosses for the missions on Oricon are actually rather hard to do solo, though they were the only ones that really require knowledge of the enemy and special tactics. Champion mobs are the definite line for "you can't do this solo" especially world bosses, even I heard if its a lvl 18 world boss and you're 50. In the end you start seeing more and more elites just to complete your quests also. They give you companions to fill in extra roles, which makes things quite a bit easier, say, I mainly keep a healer companion out with my tank, though things take a while to die.

You can solo lower level flashpoints once high enough level though just to get dark side or light side points. There are "heroic" level side missions on all planets with require a group to do unless you're higher level then them. Daily and weekly missions in the endgame also require groups to complete all of them. In general though, with tactical flashpoints and heroic missions, you don't need players of specific roles. Normal and hard flashpoints require the classic tank/ 2 dps/healer combination. You get four person groups.

I have leveled a vangaurd tank to really start with, most of the boss mechanics in flashpoints are designed so that you can't ignore them unless you are way geared, and bosses can still take a while and be somewhat tiring to take down. I have not tried doing operations, I am not geared for them yet, which come in three difficulties, the most difficult being Nightmare mode where you have to know the mechanics or you're as good as dead.

But the entire leveling process feeling rather tedious, and you can't just do your storyline missions and stay at level with enemies, which keeps things the most interesting for me. You have to fill in experience with other things or use legacy experience boosts. They really focused on improving the endgame, which means you either like how leveling works in the game or you don't. There is Galactic Starfighter and PVP matches for different experiences, but I don't play mmo's for pvp mainly, and I don't overly enjoy the style of GSF.



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29 Jul 2014, 9:44 am

TornadoEvil wrote:
Yeah, you guys are partially right, normal and weak enemies are mostly just painful to grind through unless they do a significant amount of damage. A strong enemy takes much longer to take down, and does more damage. And elites, the tough guys you are supposed to be able to take one-on-one can be close fights. Several of the bosses for the missions on Oricon are actually rather hard to do solo, though they were the only ones that really require knowledge of the enemy and special tactics. Champion mobs are the definite line for "you can't do this solo" especially world bosses, even I heard if its a lvl 18 world boss and you're 50. In the end you start seeing more and more elites just to complete your quests also. They give you companions to fill in extra roles, which makes things quite a bit easier, say, I mainly keep a healer companion out with my tank, though things take a while to die.

You can solo lower level flashpoints once high enough level though just to get dark side or light side points. There are "heroic" level side missions on all planets with require a group to do unless you're higher level then them. Daily and weekly missions in the endgame also require groups to complete all of them. In general though, with tactical flashpoints and heroic missions, you don't need players of specific roles. Normal and hard flashpoints require the classic tank/ 2 dps/healer combination. You get four person groups.

I have leveled a vangaurd tank to really start with, most of the boss mechanics in flashpoints are designed so that you can't ignore them unless you are way geared, and bosses can still take a while and be somewhat tiring to take down. I have not tried doing operations, I am not geared for them yet, which come in three difficulties, the most difficult being Nightmare mode where you have to know the mechanics or you're as good as dead.

But the entire leveling process feeling rather tedious, and you can't just do your storyline missions and stay at level with enemies, which keeps things the most interesting for me. You have to fill in experience with other things or use legacy experience boosts. They really focused on improving the endgame, which means you either like how leveling works in the game or you don't. There is Galactic Starfighter and PVP matches for different experiences, but I don't play mmo's for pvp mainly, and I don't overly enjoy the style of GSF.


How far above the level of a flashpoint do you think you can solo it?



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30 Jul 2014, 6:42 pm

structrix wrote:
TornadoEvil wrote:
Yeah, you guys are partially right, normal and weak enemies are mostly just painful to grind through unless they do a significant amount of damage. A strong enemy takes much longer to take down, and does more damage. And elites, the tough guys you are supposed to be able to take one-on-one can be close fights. Several of the bosses for the missions on Oricon are actually rather hard to do solo, though they were the only ones that really require knowledge of the enemy and special tactics. Champion mobs are the definite line for "you can't do this solo" especially world bosses, even I heard if its a lvl 18 world boss and you're 50. In the end you start seeing more and more elites just to complete your quests also. They give you companions to fill in extra roles, which makes things quite a bit easier, say, I mainly keep a healer companion out with my tank, though things take a while to die.

You can solo lower level flashpoints once high enough level though just to get dark side or light side points. There are "heroic" level side missions on all planets with require a group to do unless you're higher level then them. Daily and weekly missions in the endgame also require groups to complete all of them. In general though, with tactical flashpoints and heroic missions, you don't need players of specific roles. Normal and hard flashpoints require the classic tank/ 2 dps/healer combination. You get four person groups.

I have leveled a vangaurd tank to really start with, most of the boss mechanics in flashpoints are designed so that you can't ignore them unless you are way geared, and bosses can still take a while and be somewhat tiring to take down. I have not tried doing operations, I am not geared for them yet, which come in three difficulties, the most difficult being Nightmare mode where you have to know the mechanics or you're as good as dead.

But the entire leveling process feeling rather tedious, and you can't just do your storyline missions and stay at level with enemies, which keeps things the most interesting for me. You have to fill in experience with other things or use legacy experience boosts. They really focused on improving the endgame, which means you either like how leveling works in the game or you don't. There is Galactic Starfighter and PVP matches for different experiences, but I don't play mmo's for pvp mainly, and I don't overly enjoy the style of GSF.


How far above the level of a flashpoint do you think you can solo it?


Eh, its more a question of "what kind of flashpoint is soloable?" At the maximum level, which is 55, level 50 hard modes are probably soloable, as well as level 55 tactical flashpoints. Tactical flashpoints even have healing stations for bosses. I wouldn't try level 55 hard modes solo. Its easy enough to get a group with the group finder that its more of a, why bother? Its just going to take extra time, unless you're playing a stealth tanking self-healing uber class called a jedi shadow/sith assasin.



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31 Jul 2014, 12:40 pm

For something different in stead of SWTOR I have played Everquest 2 a little. They both have rather good free-to-play options.

Maybe when I burn out of that, I can focus on cello practicing or exercising.

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA I'm so funny.